What happens when you combine a business degree, a passion for hip hop, and an expert lens on pop culture? Disruptive magic. Music journalist Sowmya Krishnamurthy is the author of Fashion Killa: How Hip-Hop Revolutionized High Fashion. After earning her business degree at Michigan Ross, she moved to New York but wasn’t looking for a typical finance job that many in her cohort were after. She was there for the music. Sowmya joins Breaking Schemas hosts Marcus Collins and John Branch to chat about the years she spent paying her dues in mailrooms and interviewing stars like J. Cole and Travis Scott before they were huge, the importance of finding your authentic personal brand, and how to leverage a bricolage kind of disruption. *Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*
What happens when you combine a business degree, a passion for hip hop, and an expert lens on pop culture? Disruptive magic.
Music journalist Sowmya Krishnamurthy is the author of Fashion Killa: How Hip-Hop Revolutionized High Fashion. After earning her business degree at Michigan Ross, she moved to New York but wasn’t looking for a typical finance job that many in her cohort were after. She was there for the music.
Sowmya joins Breaking Schemas hosts Marcus Collins and John Branch to chat about the years she spent paying her dues in mailrooms and interviewing stars like J. Cole and Travis Scott before they were huge, the importance of finding your authentic personal brand, and how to leverage a bricolage kind of disruption.
*Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*
Be yourself in the face of adversity and differences
17:00: I do think that for someone like myself and for anybody who is like an immigrant or who grows up in a place where you might not fit in for a variety of reasons, you can either lean into what makes you special or you can try to fit in. And I've always just believed in it. Be yourself. Whatever that is, it is special and unique, and nobody could be like that before.
Yourself as your personal brand
20:46: In hip hop, a lot of people have street names or nicknames that people have called you, and I was like, no, no, no. This is the brand. I need people to know where I come from— I need people to know that I come from another country. That was important to me, even as a kid. I don't want to come in calling myself something else because that's part of what makes me unique. And in the marketplace, there are people who gravitate towards me specifically because they know that's what I represent.
Unlocking your potential in a multi-passionate world
30:08: Nowadays, there are so many more opportunities to be a multi-hyphenate. Try things out. I've tried some things, and it's not a fit. I've been to auditions; I've done pilots that went nowhere and never got picked up. They will never see the light of day, but all of those experiences are just bricks in your story.
(Transcripts may contain a few typographical errors due to audio quality during the podcast recording.)
[00:00:00] Marcus Intro: Welcome to Breaking Schemas, a podcast that explores the dynamic changes of contemporary business through the lenses of the disruptors who have not only navigated the changes but have also rewritten the rules of the game. We’ll be sitting down with business leaders across a wide spectrum of industries to discuss their victories, their failures, and the biggest lessons they’ve experienced throughout their career to prepare tomorrow’s leaders—that’s you!—for an ever-changing marketplace.
I’m Marcus Collins, marketing professor here at the Ross School of Business, University of Michigan. I’ll be your host, along with my co-conspirator, Professor John Branch. Now, let’s get into it.
Welcome back to another episode of Breaking Schemas. We have with us another leader-in-best this time, Sowmya Krishnamurthy, the author of Fashion Killa: How Hip-Hop Revolutionized High Fashion.
Sowmya, welcome to the pod.
[00:01:04] Sowmya: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:06] Marcus: Oh, thank you for being with us. Look, John and I've been excited for this one, because we're marrying things that we really, really care about. Like, John and I are big music guys, particularly me on the hip-hop side. If you don't know us, we are always dripped in the latest fashion. I'm totally joking. But we often talk about fashion as sort of a beacon of self-expression, right? How people project their identity, the identity project that they pursue through the way in which they adorn themselves with artifacts. So, we're putting these two things together in the frame of business. We’re absolutely excited about it, and to have you with us, someone who knows this space so well. So, if you would, just get us oriented to your career. You're a journalist and an author. Tell us about the work you do.
[00:01:51] Sowmya: Absolutely. So, I am a music journalist. I am a pop culture expert, as well as a debut author. So, Fashion Killa is my first book, and it is available everywhere. Got to put out that little plug. So, I come from a very, sort of, non-traditional background in that I graduated from the Ross School of Business, the BBA program. Shout-outs to section three, the best section, of course.
[00:02:18] Marcus: B, B, B, B, B, B.
[00:02:20] Sowmya: And, you know, I really thought, when I was at Michigan, I always had this dream of moving to New York, working in the music business. And this is going to date me a little bit, but for all the kids growing up in, like, the ‘90s, I mean, I grew up obsessed with labels, like, Bad Boy and Roc-A-Fella and Def Jam. And that's what I thought I was going to do, is I'm going to move to New York and one day I'm going to run Def Jam.
So, you know, kind of, the long and short of it is I did come to the industry and I started at William Morris Endeavor in the famous mailroom program. So, if anyone has watched Entourage, you got a little bit of a taste of, sort of, the Hollywood talent agency world. And from there, I took this very, sort of, circuitous path that included working in digital media with people like Lil Wayne and Jim Jones and all of these artists and brands. And then, ultimately, just not feeling very creatively satisfied and getting into journalism really, kind of, a, sort of, a hobby.
I mean, I was working this nine-to-five at this digital startup, but in my free time, especially, like, lunch hours and after work, I was the person hiding in the corner, interviewing, like, J. Cole or Drake, because all of these guys, we came up together. And now, looking back, it's pretty insane, you know. I was probably one of Travis Scott's first interviews or Chance the Rapper.
And back then, they were very easy to get to. Now, Travis is doing, like, five nights at Madison Square Garden sold out back-to-back. But really, I just, sort of, you know, understood the power of branding myself. This was as Twitter and social media was really percolating and creating this niche for myself in the world of hip-hop and pop culture and getting, kind of, my bylines up, whether it be Rolling Stone, XXL, The Village Voice, very much running the gamut.
So, about three years ago, I made the decision to embark on my first book project. And it was really important for me to do something that, first of all, hadn't been done. So, Fashion Killa is the first retrospective covering 50 years of hip-hop and luxury fashion, and also to elevate the subject matter. So, oftentimes, when you talk about something like a hip-hop or fashion, I'll be honest, in the literary world, it is seen, kind of, through a very cursory, somewhat surface-level lens. But to me, I knew, as you mentioned, Marcus, in the opening, there's so much more as it relates to branding or psychology, marketing, even politics, and how they all, kind of, come together in this very interesting marriage. And I wanted to showcase that and show how important this subject matter is. And what better time than to drop it on the 50th anniversary of hip-hop.
[00:05:07] Marcus: Well-timed. That was good choreography, as we'd say. And, you know, I think it's interesting, is that you typically don't see a business school student go work in the mail room. That's like, any, any… like, any BBA student right now is probably like, “What? Why would you ever do that?”
[00:05:24] Sowmya: You know, what's so funny too, you know, going back to when I was on campus, we had companies coming and recruiting, and my concentrations were marketing and management. So, I knew marketing was something I was interested in. It was also this nice very holistic function that, no matter what I wanted to do, having that background would be great.
And I also had this very interesting love for management. Like, I, kind of, joke, if I wasn't doing this, I'd want to be a consultant and go work at, like, BCG or something because I just love the idea of going into companies and telling them what they need to do and then just leaving, like, some sort of magic consulting fairy.
But, you know, I knew that I always wanted to work in the music business. And for me, that meant doing a lot of the groundwork on my own. So, my first internship was at CNN in Atlanta. And I got that old school going on, like turner.com, and just applying, just very old school. But full disclosure, that was an unpaid internship. So, I had to go to Atlanta, pay to live there for the summer. You're essentially paying for the honor of being in the CNN newsroom.
And then, I knew that, when I wanted to move to New York, like, there was no way I could ask my parents to pay again, right, to, like, help me. So, what I ended up doing was getting an internship at American Express through the business school. So, 9:00 to 5:00, I worked at AmEx in open, which is their small business department. But at 5:01, I was on that train straight to Times Square to 1440, which was Bad Boy's old office. So, to say I was living a double life is an understatement, because I would work there from, like, 6:00 to maybe 10:00 or 11:00, and then we would go out.
So, this was still at the time when people went out to a lot of the clubs and parties. Tuesday is when new albums came out, so we would have record release parties. And somehow, I would make it to work at 9:00 a.m. at AmEx the next day. And God bless them, because I knew they had… by the end of the summer, they, kind of, knew, “Okay, you seem really tired. I'm pretty sure I've seen you nod off in at least one meeting.” But you know, I still did a good job. It was very clear whether it was at CNN or AmEx, like, older people who were, sort of, mentors and people in those industries would pull me aside and say, “Look, if you want to be in the music business, just do it. Like, that's where you belong. Like, if that's where your heart is, go do that. Like, this job will always be there, but if that's, like, where your dreams are, like, you need to be there.”
And it was just clear where the calling was. And, you know, for all of the, sort of, the students or people who are in times in their life that they're not sure, listening to, sort of, your gut and your intuition usually tells you the direction you should be moving in.
[00:08:11] Marcus: John, this is not prototypical for a normal business school student, right?
[00:08:16] John: It is not, because, you know, here in the business school, we often, kind of, shuttle kids into consulting, brand management, maybe human capital consulting. But this is so refreshing to hear you, Sowmya, to hear you say, “I knew I wanted to be in music, so I just did it.” “Just do it,” that's a good tagline. You ought to copyright that one.
[00:08:38] Sowmya: You know, I feel like a company should use that. I'm not sure who, but it seems like it would really resonate with the consumers, yeah.
[00:08:45] John: Well done. You know, Marcus and I often use this, kind of, cliche. We say, if you want a six pack, you got to do the crunches. And you epitomize that cliche because you did 9:00 to 5:00 at AmEx to pay the bills. But from 5:00 to 9:00, you were pursuing your passion. And I think, for our listeners out there, this is a great lesson. If you want something, you got to go after it, right?
[00:09:09] Sowmya: You have to. And it’s funny because even there were times when I was at Michigan, I would just look around and feel like such an alien, because again, as a school, we're top-class finance, marketing, law, psychology, all of these great fields, but we aren't a school that's really, sort of, plugged into, let's say, the entertainment business, definitely not the music industry.
And as we get even more granular into hip-hop, I mean, it truly is who, you know. So, there's actually an interesting, kind of, funny story that I want to share with you. I remember when I was 13 years old, I said, “I'm going to work in hip-hop.” I grew up in Kalamazoo, Michigan. I'm originally from India, so, like, a little Indian kid growing up in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Derek Jeter had just got to the Yankees. So, that's finally, okay, I know one celebrity, in my mind, right?
And I just knew, and I just felt like, all right, well, as I was listening to a Jay-Z album or reading, let's say, interview with Cam’ron and XXL, “Oh, I know them. And that's going to be my colleagues and those are going to be the people I work with.” But I became voracious because, whether it be reading album liner notes, whether it was watching every single music video, documentary, movie, magazine article, I mean, I truly became a student of what I wanted to do. I was the kid reading page six every day. And if anybody knows, that's, like, the New York Post gossip column. But I needed to know, like, who's canoodling with who, what are the hot spots? Because I mean, again, these are my colleagues one day, right? I wanted to come into the industry as someone who knew, okay, so Kevin Liles is over at Def Jam. All right, Lior's about to leave and go to Warner. That's truly great. I needed to know who these people were beyond just, sort of, the build faced artist names.
And I was writing for the Michigan Daily Fast Forward at U of M and I had my own column. So, again, I was the kid, I walked into the Daily as a freshman, “Oh, I need a column.” And they said, “You're a freshman, so you're going to, you know, earn your stripes, as you should, you know. Put your head down.” And I did that for my freshman year. I ended up getting a column, I believe my sophomore through senior year.
And I'd one time wrote some article about vote or die, which was Sean Puffy Combs, like, voter initiative. And it wasn't very positive. It was a little critical of him. So, one day, I come back to South Quad, right? And I have a voicemail on my dorm phone. Now, this time, we had cell phone. So, who was calling you on your dorm phone outside of some friend, trying to, you know, prank you? I picked up the phone, and I listened to the message. And it's so and so from Bad Boy in New York. And they're like, “We read your article, and we want to talk to you.” And it didn't sound very positive. Let's just say the tone did not sound like they were going to send me a gift basket. So, I'm thinking, “You're bugging. There's no way… from Bad Boy? How did you even find me?” And that was, like, my dream. Like, I'm trying to work there.
At this point, I have no industry connections. I don't have a famous last name. Despite what people think, I don't know M. Night Shyamalan. Like, I have no connections, right? So, like, power Indians of the industry. So, I just had to describe it, in case people think that I'm, like, related to Padma Lakshmi.
So, I called the person back, thinking that this is a joke. But I'd never told anyone these aspirations, so how would they have known? And it was real. And it happened to be this guy. He went by the name of Jay Gatsby. That was, like, his, sort of, industry name. Yes, Jay Gatsby.
[00:12:43] Marcus: Oh, Nihar!
[00:12:45] Sowmya: Nihar Kulkarni. Shoutouts to Nihar.
[00:12:46] Marcus: That’s my guy!
[00:12:47] Sowmya: That was him. And he was like, you know, “I work in marketing. I went to U of M.” And I said, “Yeah, yeah, that's great. I'm going to be in New York in a few weeks, because through the business school, we had, like, this, arts and media, like, club. And they took you to New York once a year.” I said, “I'm about to be there. I'm going to take you to coffee.” He's like, “Who is this little girl? Like, what are you talking about? But fine, I'll indulge it.”
Fast forward, I went there. And we met. He was super cool. And I left with an internship. I think it truly is, sort of… and I don't want to get too woo-woo on the pod, but it's, sort of, manifestation, that, kind of, dogged determination and confidence, but also relying on these very interesting network connections, whether it's something that you intend or just, kind of, happens.
[00:13:35] Marcus: How did I not know this? Okay. So, just a little context for you, John. Nihar Kulkarni, that is my guy. We were in undergrad together, did so much work together. And Nihar made his way into the music industry, made lots of headways there, working with Dave's team for quite a while. Talk about the Michigan network in full effect. It's amazing.
[00:13:56] Sowmya: And I encourage people, like, be fearless. I mean, the worst thing is what they don't respond. But most of the time, and especially if you have that Michigan connection, I can't tell you the minute I know someone went to Michigan, that's in the subject line, just off the top, because they're going to immediately open it because we have that shared experience.
And I think, again, when people, sort of, view networking as, kind of, like it's a game or it's something sleazy, no, it's just connecting with people. Like, that's not sleazy. And to me, part of going to a big school like Michigan is learning those skills, because, you know, to find your way on that campus, you, sort of, need to because otherwise a closed mouth don't get fed.
[00:14:38] Marcus: That’s right.
[00:14:38] Sowmya: No one is going to come to your room and be like, “Hey, what do you want to do? Like, that's just not the type of, sort of, Wolverine ethos. So, I really do encourage, whether you're a student, whether you're looking to just make connections, don't sleep on the alumni database. Across the board, anytime I've connected with somebody from our school, it's always been a positive experience.
[00:14:59] Marcus: Yeah. Sowmya, you know, here's what I'm hearing here. And it's, kind of, blowing my mind a little bit. You've got a writer who has an affinity and understanding of hip-hop, affinity and understanding of fashion, studying business as a BBA, with a keen understanding of the power of brand. And you've been able to pull all these things together and create the alchemy that has become your career, demonstrating in your book, Fashion Killa, demonstrating in your work, as a music journalist, as a pop culture savant, as one would say, and, you know, in the world of sociology and in business writ large, there's a term called bricolage that a gentleman by the name of Levi Strauss brought to bear.
And bricolage is basically just a fancy French word for mashup. And Levi Strauss would talk about the fact that ideas don't come plucked out of the blue and they aren't novel in their inherent sense. Instead, that new innovative ideas come to bear by pairing things together that normally be disconnected, i.e. BBA background with a strong emphasis in cultural studies, particularly in pop culture, with a strong interest in hip-hop and a strong interest in fashion, bringing together, you create something new and novel.
And that is a form of disruption. We talk a lot about Cirque du Soleil as an example of this. Cirque du Soleil took the magic of the circus and paired with it the curation in detail and sophistication of theater to create something new and novel. That's a form of bricolage. And in this way, I guess, from a meta text perspective, hip-hop itself is a form of bricolage, taking that sample, this sample, that sample, and lay new creation on top of it. You create something new. It sounds like that's how you have been able to be as successful in your career through this sense of bricolage, does that ring true for you?
[00:16:59] Sowmya: You know, it's interesting. I do think for someone like myself and for anybody who is, like, an immigrant or who, kind of, grows up in a place where you might not fit in for a variety of reasons, I think you can either, sort of, lean into what makes you special or you can try to fit in. And I've always just believed in, just be yourself. Like, whatever that is, is special and unique and nobody can be that before. It's funny, because when I came into an industry, and even to this day, I mean, hip-hop is still a boys’ club. And I'm sure you see the media landscape. I mean, it's dominated by men. And also, the people who are in it, many of them do come from, you know, media backgrounds or J school, like, very much, a much more traditional linear path. And that's just never been me. Again, I like a variety of different subjects and ideas. I like being constantly challenged. And that's why I like having my hands in a variety of pots.
Of course, having that expertise and what really, sort of, makes your heart sing is important, but it's okay, and I think it's also encouraged to be different. And I think, sometimes, you may have this laser focus, but the plans for you are even bigger.
So, also, be, kind of, open and malleable and flexible. Like, I do think, sometimes, we get so rigid. Like, I would have never thought you'd see me on The Breakfast Club or I would host a show on Sirius or be on television around the world. That was never in my mind, but somebody else saw that and I was just open to it and receptive.
[00:18:32] Marcus: One of my favorite books is The Alchemist. And the, the repeated line is, if you know what you want, and paraphrase it, if you know what you want, the universe will conspire on your behalf.
[00:18:43] Sowmya: I believe that 100%.
[00:18:45] Marcus: And it seemed like you were very focused and very clear on what you wanted. And the universe, in all its many ways, have conspired on your behalf. John, did that ring true for you?
[00:18:55] John: Yeah. And you know, I think the underlying lesson is so, so very simple—be yourself. And I know that expression, “be yourself,” sounds so trite, but if we think of that expression, “be yourself,” from a business perspective, it's about strong branding. It's about, about identifying your position in the market.
Marcus and I love this word, “conviction,” like, having a conviction, a point of view. And if we want to bring it into the artist space, what's your voice? What is your artist voice? And be yourself. It's simple, but boy, is it powerful. And clearly, you have followed that advice in your life, because it would have been easy to follow the lemmings and go to investment banking in New York or, you know, go sling a lemon Clorox bleach.
[00:19:41] Marcus: And no shade to Clorox.
[00:19:43] Sowmya: No, shout-out to Clorox and shout-out to the bankers, because we need you guys, too. But it's funny. I mean, when I was graduating, my dad was trying to help me, like, “Hey, I know someone at Sara Lee,” or I know someone at Stryker,” because, you know, Kalamazoo. I interviewed at those companies, and I did not get past the door. They're like, “What are you doing? You are not slinging cheesecake.” Although, I would love a plug to that company right now, great cheesecake. You know, but I do think that, going back to this idea of branding, and I would say, Gen Alpha, Gen Z is probably even more cognizant, but even as a millennial, whether it's subconscious or conscious, I, kind of, understood, coming into the marketplace, like, how are you different? Because even now, when I walk into a room, yeah, I mean, I look different, obviously. The minute I open my mouth and my dulcet Midwestern tones come out, “Okay, you're different,” but something as simple as my byline, like, I made the decision very early, I'm not going to use something like a nom de guerre. I'm not going to use a pen name. As we mentioned before, especially in hip-hop, a lot of people have, like, street names, nicknames that people have called you. And I was like, “No, no, no. This is the brand. I need people to know, like, where I come from. I need people to know that I come from another country.”
That was important to me even as a kid. Like, I don't want to come in calling myself something else, because that's part of what makes me unique. And in the marketplace, there are people who gravitate towards me specifically because they know that's what I represent. Like, why would I come in acting like, “I'm from Harlem, I'm from Brooklyn?” “The minute you open your mouth, you're absolutely not. You call Air Force 1s Air Force 1s, not uptowns. You are not from here.”
But that to me is, like, what's more interesting. If we all just, kind of, are amalgam and the same thing, how is that interesting? And how do you then differentiate your space in the market? But I do think now, because of social media, the notion of personal branding, people, whether again, whether you're an entrepreneur or a freelancer, or you work in a company, okay, you work at this big multinational company, but why should you get the promotion? Are you, you know, the person with the great attitude? Are you the person who are planning the social events? Are you just someone in a meeting you have all the creative ideas? Like, what do you do? And why should we care?
And I do think all of us, constantly, I mean, I do this exercise probably on a daily basis, like, what are you bringing to the table? What are you changing? And why should we, you know, want to work with you? And I think all of us need to do that, because it's so easy to just, kind of, fall into, okay, you're a company person. The company will take care of you. You stand behind the big email. My whole career has been off of Gmail, the same Gmail I had since I was a kid.
[00:22:33] John: You know what I love about what you just said? Personal branding. Like, you reinforced my point about be yourself, but what you added was personal branding, which is genuine, right? People will call you out if you are inauthentic about your personal branding, right? You've got to live, you've got to live your values. You've got to walk the talk, right? So, yeah.
[00:22:59] Sowmya: It's also hard, like, unless you're an actor and practicing for your future Oscar, at which point, you know, part of acting the part, all the world's a stage, may be organic, it is really hard to keep up the facade or to try to fit into shoes that just don't fit. So, you know, whether it's how you dress, how you come into a room, everyone in the music industry always laughs, especially if I meet, you know, like, a rapper or an executive, like, “You have a really firm handshake.” And I said, “Because I went to business school.” I say that, because we literally took, sort of, courses on how to network, how to schmooze, which I know are, sort of, loaded terms. But it has served me so well. And they say, “You just, like, move differently,” because I am different. And everyone has something unique about them, but don't be, sort of, like, embarrassed or ashamed of your past. And also, don't think, just because certain building blocks might not make sense in the moment, I'm sure there were people who were like, “Why don't you get a comm degree, get an English degree? Like, what are you doing at B school?”
But that background, honestly, has helped me probably more than any other field, because it's a mindset. It's how we think. It's how we talk. It's how we move the confidence we have in these rooms. From day one, it's like, “Oh, no, no. Like, you want to work with me.” I have a lot to learn. And of course, being humble, put your head down, do the work, come in before your boss, leave after, I mean, these were tenets I was raised on. However, I went to Ross. Like, what are you talking about? Like, you will never speak to me sideways or mistreat me because that's not going to happen, because I have the confidence of that education of the background and know that I belong here and you can't tell me I don't belong here.
And believe me, one thing in the industry which I know, you know, if you're a fan of Entourage, like, there are moments, I remember coming up, people saying things, “You will never work in this town.” It's like, “Who are you? Like, what is this?” Or, you might get fired on a Friday, rehired on Monday. These are very normal things in these, sort of, zany creative industries.
You know, one year you may have a great financial year, the next year, eh, not so much. Do you let that affect your work and how you, sort of, move and your mindset? And I think a lot of that comes back to having that solid foundation of, no, we went to one of the best schools in the world. Like, we know who we are. And don't let anybody else define your worth, you know.
[00:25:26] Marcus: When we talk about identity, we typically, in people having different monikers represent who they are, we call that intersectionality.
[00:25:35] Sowmya: Don't you love in academia there's always, like, a fancy word for everything? It's fabulous.
[00:25:40] Marcus: It's always.
[00:25:40] Sowmya: I need, like, a vocab sheet. What was the first one? Bricolage? And now, intersectionality. Ooh, I love it.
[00:25:46] Marcus: Like, in business, we call it bricolage when you put an alchemy of different things together to create something new. In identity, we refer to it as intersectionality. And it sounds to me, as John mentioned, like, that's, sort of, made your brand what it is. What you symbolize, what you signify is a byproduct of all the things that make up who you are and doing it at a high level of authenticity.
So, with that, and considering, you know, all you've given us, good night, I feel like you've been very, very, gracious with your time and being vulnerable with your experience. Two questions for you. First, what is the normal advice given to people that are trying to pursue what you've pursued or what you've accomplished? What's the normal advice that are given by people in the industry?
[00:26:32] Sowmya: I think the normal advice people are probably given is believe in yourself, maybe. It's usually some sort of, like, a cliche, right? It's also strange, because much as mentorship and those things are so important, a lot of it, too, you, kind of, have to figure out yourself. And I don't know if that's just a nature of being in New York, and it's, kind of, dog eat dog, or it's, in hip-hop, this inherent, kind of, hustler culture. And so, just, you know, you figure it out. It's a lot of DIY. There isn't a formalized mentor network or, you know, a big brother or big sister program. That's not a thing in our industry. So, sometimes, it does feel like a bit of, you know, the Wild, Wild West at times. But I would say, probably, you know, the, kind of, that's the cliche, is, like, believe in yourself, which has of course, truth that it's hard. But I think without, sort of, the hard work and the perseverance and all of those things, like, it can be just a bit one note.
[00:27:34] Marcus: So, what advice would you give to future leaders who are trying to disrupt their industry, disrupt their traditional career, or trying to get into the industry that you're in?
[00:27:46] Sowmya: I always say that you have to, you have to be true to yourself. And at the end of the day, you're really running a race of one. And that can be hard, right? Especially, we're all competitive, we're all ambitious. And of course, social media does not make it easy, because we're comparing our lives with everyone's highlight reel, whether it be who got the new job, LinkedIn, someone being written about in the press, Instagram, who's on the private jet and you're a flying commercial feeling terrible about yourself. But in reality, I almost feel something like a racehorse. Like, you have to have those blinders on, on the periphery. Of course, be cognizant of the marketplace. Know your worth in the marketplace. I would never say to not have knowledge because information and knowledge are extremely important. But you got to fight your own, you know, fight your own battle, run your own race. It’s not for anybody else but you.
And you really define your success. If that's a financial goal, that's great. If it's some sort of industry accolade, that's great. If it's just you going home with a smile on your face, that's great. Like, I don't ever regret Mondays. I love Mondays, because I love working. Like, for me, taking time off is not fun. It's actually quite boring, because what is my job? Listening to music and talk… arguing about rappers all day, like, debating Drake. And now, that's, of course, the fun.
[00:29:12] Marcus: That sounds brutal.
[00:29:14] Sowmya: If you heard his last album, it is brutal. But… shots fired. But, you know, of course, that's one part of it. The other part that people for, especially, freelancers, entrepreneurs, you're your own manager, your own publicist, your own accountant, your own new business, executive. Like, you are all of those things. So, also understand that these creative industries can be incredibly fun and motivating and inspirational, but there is work, too. And at the end of the day, it is a business. And you have to also view yourself as, like, the CEO, right, of your personal business.
But follow that path, whether you're still on campus figuring out or you're looking to do a pivot at some point. And it could even be just a hobby that really interests you, that, one day, if that makes enough money, you can leave your day job. Or, you keep the day job and just have two sources of income. Not the worst problem to have! Like, nowadays, there's so many more opportunities to be a multi-hyphenate.
Try things out. I've tried some things and not be a fit. I've been on auditions. I've done pilots that went nowhere. Never got picked up. They will never see the light of day, but all of those experiences are just bricks, right, in your story. And, you know, at the end of the day, if you're someone like me who loves work as much as I do, you got to have fun and you got to enjoy it, because work takes up a lot of our lives. It's, like, work and sleep. I like those things a lot. So, I really prioritize both of those things in my life. Have a job that you love and have a really comfortable bed.
[00:30:48] Marcus: Sowmya, thank you so very much. Wise words, indeed. John, wrap us up here. Right, this idea of bricolage, or in the case of identity, intersectionality, as a disruptor, what wise words would you leave us with?
[00:31:01] John: This was a brilliant, brilliant podcast episode, because the ideas were so very simple, yet so very powerful, right? Be yourself. Just do it. Follow your passion. All of these, kind of, trite and cliche things, but they're so, so incredibly powerful. I love that you are able as an immigrant to Kalamazoo, Michigan, of all places, to find your way by being yourself. And I think the advice to our audience members would be exactly that—identify who you are, and then do the crunches to get the six pack.
[00:31:40] Marcus: Awesome. Thank you so very much. And thank you, everyone, for tuning in for another episode of Breaking Schemas. We're breaking schemas over here. We're challenging conventional wisdoms and challenging the status quo of how we think about business, how we pursue business, how we pursue our career inside of business.
Until next time! Go, Blue!
[00:31:58] Sowmya: Go, Blue!
[00:32:01] Marcus Outro: Breaking Schemas is a Michigan Ross podcast, powered by the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative and produced by University FM. Go, Blue!