As an accounting major trying to break into the media and entertainment industry, Devin Johnson heard the word “no” a lot. But the now-president of Lebron James and Maverick Carter’s SpringHill Company found his way into the creative world through finance jobs. That versatility is sewn into the fabric of SpringHill’s mission; it’s a place where accountants can make creative content, too. Devin says that mindset and culture are built on empowerment. Empowerment from Lebron James gave him the confidence to step into his role, and he wants to instill that kind of empowerment in his employees. Breaking Schemas host Marcus Collins sits down with Devin to chat about his journey from accounting to leading a major content company, how the SpringHill Company fosters a diverse and empowering culture, and why having an “irrational expectation of success” leads to amazing things. *Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*
As an accounting major trying to break into the media and entertainment industry, Devin Johnson heard the word “no” a lot. But the now-president of Lebron James and Maverick Carter’s SpringHill Company found his way into the creative world through finance jobs.
That versatility is sewn into the fabric of SpringHill’s mission; it’s a place where accountants can make creative content, too. Devin says that mindset and culture are built on empowerment. Empowerment from Lebron James gave him the confidence to step into his role, and he wants to instill that kind of empowerment in his employees.
Breaking Schemas host Marcus Collins sits down with Devin to chat about his journey from accounting to leading a major content company, how the SpringHill Company fosters a diverse and empowering culture, and why having an “irrational expectation of success” leads to amazing things.
*Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*
Just because your job title, says one thing doesn't mean that that's the only thing that you can do
14:28: We're constantly trying to find ways to make sure that people live beyond their job title, and if you're in the accounting group, that doesn't mean that your social can't be popping. And that doesn't mean that you may not have an idea for a digital series or for social promotion for one of our shows, or whatever the case is. So, we want to listen. We keep our ears and eyes open.
On embracing the process
22:10: A mindset that I've had to adopt over time is that you have to fall in love with the process. So when something's not working and something's hard, you just keep working at it, and those become the ethos of the company because we've seen our chairman do it. I've seen our CEO do it. And so it's my job to make sure that gets translated to the person that's working on growing one of our brands that you got to be okay. You got to fall in love with the process of growing that. It doesn't happen overnight. It's all the nights that you're putting into it, and no one's watching you.
There is value in the struggle
31:12: There are no perfect institutions, just perfect intentions. Companies will sometimes miss your genius, promotions, and acknowledgements. And all the things that you're looking for may not happen on your timing, but see the value in the struggle. Every bad moment in my career has been followed, or was followed, by something bigger and better. And I just think if you focus on continuous improvement, try to get 1% better every day, good things will ultimately happen to you.
(Transcripts may contain a few typographical errors due to audio quality during the podcast recording.)
[00:00:00] Marcus: Welcome to Breaking Schemas, a podcast that explores the dynamic changes of contemporary business through the lenses of the disruptors who have not only navigated the changes but have also rewritten the rules of the game. We'll be sitting down with business leaders across a wide spectrum of industries to discuss their victories, their failures, and the biggest lessons they've experienced throughout their career to prepare tomorrow's leaders, that's you, for an ever-changing marketplace.
I'm Marcus Collins, marketing professor here at the Ross School of Business, University of Michigan. I'll be your host, along with my co-conspirator, Professor John Branch. Now, let's get into it.
Hello, hello! Welcome back to another episode of Breaking Schemas. Listen, I'm by myself this time around, but I'm still in good company, because why? We only bring on leaders and bests. And I got to tell you, today's guest is no exception. Please help me welcome to the podcast the president of the SpringHill company, my friend, Mr. Devin Johnson.
Devin, what's happening, my man?
[00:01:10] Devin: What's going on, Marcus? Good to see you.
[00:01:13] Marcus: It's great to be seen. It's great to be heard. So, let's just, sort of, level set. Like, we know the SpringHill Company definitely by its products, things like The Shop, for instance, one of the content pillars from the company. You've probably seen the work out in the world, but maybe you don't know the orchestration of it. You've definitely seen some of the faces that represent the company out in the world, be it LeBron James or Mav Carter, but tell the people what the SpringHill Company is and what it means to be the president of SpringHill.
[00:01:47] Devin: Let’s start with the first question of the SpringHill Company. At our core, we are a content company. We create storytelling opportunities, experiences for whether it's athletes at UNINTERRUPTED, creators with the SpringHill brand, and, you know, just great conversations as it comes to the shop. We are about creating content that moves and empowers. And that's, you know, that's us, full stop.
So, I have responsibilities that are around, kind of, commercialization and just how it all comes together. So, the reality of it is, you know, we have physical production, we have a brand partnerships team, we have a studio business, we have consumer facing brands, like, The Shop, UNINTERRUPTED. And my job is to make it all to come together. How do we, you know, make good stuff? How do we commercialize it? You know, my job, sometimes I'm sweeping the floors and sometimes I'm having meetings with executives. It depends on the day. But I do whatever's needed to be done so that the company can achieve its potential.
[00:02:46] Marcus: Now, correct me if I'm wrong here. You are a graduate of the University of Michigan, the business school before it was done, the Ross School of Business. Is this a typical place for Michigan business alum to be in media in a content company? Am I off with that? I mean…
[00:03:05] Devin: You’re right with we're leaders and best, so we're everywhere. Where aren't Michigan alums? So, we're all over the place. So, the answer is, yes, it is a place for Michigan alums. But I also heard you say that, you know, I was there before it was Ross. So, that's just your way of just reminding me that I'm not a young man.
[00:03:24] Marcus: Tenured, my brother. You're tenured. Seasoned. You're seasoned.
[00:03:27] Devin: I have been experienced, tenured. You name the adjective, I have all that, including tired.
[00:03:34] Marcus: Well, the interesting part, I think that, I mean, we were, like, were to just think about the timing of all this, that the notion of working at a content company that wasn't like NBC or one of, sort of, the linear television providers, the idea of being a content company didn't seem like the normal trajectory for a business school student, right?
[00:03:56] Devin: Yeah.
[00:03:56] Marcus: And here you are, the president of one. So, like, how did you get here? What was the trajectory that got you here?
[00:04:01] Devin: Yeah, I mean, it's certainly, at that time, it was, you know, consulting, banking, you know, that's where, you know, the feeder systems were… you know, we're close to Detroit, so, a lot of people going into the automotive industry. I just got bit by the entertainment bug while I was on campus. I actually, with a classmate, we launched a Black newspaper called the Black Student Monthly. That, I don't believe is still around, but we had a good run for, you know, the years that we were there.
But it was where I learned how to, you know, publish something, you know, that… you know, she was an editor. Her name's Chastity, and she was an editor. I think she was in the journalism program there. And, you know, I was in the B school. And so, together, it was, you know, peanut butter and chocolate. It was Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. I was out here trying to sell ads and, and do all the things, managing, kind of, the, the layouts and all that stuff. And she was out writing stories and, and hiring and, you know, recruiting journalists.
And so, that's where I, kind of, realized or learned, you know, kind of, what the inklings of this business is, because that's really, you know, if you think about it, any entertainment product, I mean, what are you, creating content and you're finding ways to commercialize it.
[00:05:07] Marcus: Huh.
[00:05:07] Devin: And so… and distribute it. And so, that's what we were doing. At that time, we were creating, you know, a newspaper. We had a very specific audience. It was Black students. We created content specific to that audience. We went out and talk to advertisers and said why that audience is important. And we distributed it across the campus. That's the business. And, you know, tell me another business in our entertainment space that isn't like that. And so, that's where I really, kind of, formed an interest and a love for, kind of, how this business works. And at that point, I was still an accounting major.
[00:05:39] Marcus: I didn't know that part of the story. You were an accounting major?
[00:05:43] Devin: Accounting. Yeah, I was an accounting kid in the B school. And I was doing internship. I was, you know, interning for consumer products companies.
[00:05:49] Marcus: So, accounting student who got bit by the media bug, helps produce a publication on campus for a specific group of people. When you leave Michigan, where do you go? Do you pursue that? Or, do you, sort of, subvert that by trying to be close to it in tangential?
[00:06:08] Devin: I tried. And, you know, the creative community wasn't accepting of me, because I had too much of that accounting. Like, they could just see it in my eyes. So, I took the auditing jobs. I was an internal auditor for a company that ended up being bought by Unilever. And so, I did that. You know, little known fact, you know, they got acquired and they were like, “Hey, you want to go live in Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey.” I was in Chicago at the time. I was like, “No, that don't sound like where I want to be.” So, like, “Okay. Well, you've been laid off.”
And so, nine months into my career, I got laid off. But, you know, my boss recommended me for a job at Quaker Oats, which became Pepsi. And so, I became an auditor there. So, I did that for three years, but it was at that point where I said, “You know what? I'm going to find my way into the entertainment industry,” and took a finance job at Tribune. So, if anybody knows Chicago, you know, I basically just, kind of, took jobs across the river until I got to Tribune building, and, you know, there was no other place to go.
So, I stopped there, and I did that for about… I think I was there, like, three years or so, and then went to NBCUniversal. That's when I really, you know, kind of, made, I was a real entertainment guy in my mind, at least, working for NBCUniversal.
[00:07:20] Marcus: Your identity shifted. You're now in the cool zone.
[00:07:23] Devin: I was… yeah, I was legit, you know. But there's a transition. You know, everybody's got to find a path. For me, I had to do it through finance. I had to get into these companies through finance. And when I got there, I was like, “Yeah, I don't really want to do this, you know, that much. What else you got?” And so, then, I started nosing around and try to find other jobs that I thought were more suitable and more interesting than finance.
[00:07:44] Marcus: Now, here's what I find so interesting about this story. You start off in… I mean, we're friends, so I can keep it true with you. Accounting is probably the least coolest part of the business school.
[00:07:59] Devin: We're not going to let you throw shade on the accountants. They're out here doing it. It's the language of business.
[00:08:06] Marcus: Now, that is true. It is the language of business. However, it is the least sexiest part of business.
[00:08:13] Devin: Right, true.
[00:08:13] Marcus: But here you are, you find yourself, kind of, inching forward and closer and closer and closer to be where you want to be. And you're now the president of what one would say a very cool company in a very cool industry. But our beginnings weren't that. So, now that you're running this company, where people are raising their hand, like, “Ooh, I would love to work for them. Ooh, I would love… ooh, I would love to make content. I would love to be there,” how are you managing a culture that has the rigor of business that you know, being an accountant, language of business, but in a place that is facilitating the creative process that is driving the cultural zeitgeist? How are you managing this as president?
[00:09:02] Devin: I think it's one of the hardest thing we do, is managing a workforce that has the level of diversity of people in the business lines, in the space that we're in. And so, when we think about, you know, our diversity, I think we're somewhere, like, 70% people of color, 40 to 45% African American. We're about 50-50 women to men. There's a lot of diversity.
And what I found is, that's hard to manage, you know, because you have a lot of perspectives. You have a lot of dynamics. And when I worked at the larger companies, like the NBCs and the Pepsis and all that stuff, there is a power infrastructure that is non-debatable in those companies. Who runs those companies is not debatable. And at our company, you know, there are so many voices. And there's a youth movement happening, where I think, you know, the younger employees or the less experienced employees have, you know, a very outsized expectation and belief and moxie about them. And I don't… I'm not even going to say it's undeserved. I think they do amazing things, and, and they see the world a lot, you know, wider than, you know, some of the folks that may have been in the workforce a long time.
But to manage all of that and to get to the product that you see that people that we're known for, you know, just requires a lot of care and attention, you know. There is a youth movement happening and we’re a part of it. And they think differently. You know, I'm often reminded how old I am when I'm, you know, at work. But I love it. I mean, these kids give me energy. They have a spirit of possibility and can-do that, you know, a lot of people don't have.
So, the challenge to your question is, how do you harness it and make sure that it's a competitive advantage? But it is absolutely something that we have to keep an eye on because, you know, how I asked for a raise and when I thought I was going to get a raise and a promotion when I was 20-something is different than how their perceptions and beliefs of when they should get a raise and when they should get a promotion and all that stuff. So, managing through those is different.
[00:11:10] Marcus: I mean, it's an interesting paradigm, because, to your earlier point, the industry, the content industry, as we know it today, and its modality today is not like it once was. So, in many ways, a lot of the incoming workforce, they've been just as intimate with the tools of creation and the consumption habits, as you as president or director or creative director, et cetera, right? So, there is not this power dynamic of, like, “I've been doing this longer. I know this more than you do. Shut up, kid. get in line,” where he's like, “Actually, fam, my TikTok is popping.” It's like, “I'm actually doing the thing that you're trying to help your clients do.” So, how do you… as a leader, how do you maintain the zeal that they have pay honor to their skill set and their expertise while also channeling it in a context of commerce that they likely have not thought about, that you, as the accountant, knowing the language of business, have worked your way into this creative space that you have been hankering to do, but having such foundation of the business underpinnings that make things work in a commercial setting? How do you manage that?
[00:12:30] Devin: Yeah. I think the key is not being myopic. I mean, you can't… what we try not to do at the SpringHill Company is place limits on people. And just because… I was about to say your business card, but we ain't even got those anymore. Just because your job title says one thing doesn't mean that that's the only thing that you can do. That goes back to our more than an athlete mantra, you know. We don't go around saying more than an employee, but we do believe it. And so, when you think about the context of, you know, someone who may be our office manager or someone who may be an unscripted executive, their social, their TikTok may be popping, but they don't work on the social team.
And so, so, you look over that person, you're like, “Man, you could live over there.” But, you know, the idea of, like, just making sure that there's transparency in conversations between the groups and, to that point, not limiting someone to say, “Well, your job title says you're an unscripted exec and you cannot be on the social side,” you know. And so, we want to find what we're constantly trying to find ways to make sure that people live beyond their job title. And you have an idea and, you know, if you're in the accounting group, that doesn't mean that you can't… your social can't be popping. And that doesn't mean that, you know, you may not have an idea for a digital series or for social promotion for one of our shows or whatever the case is.
So, we want to listen. We keep… you know, we keep our ears and eyes open. We have a thing in our company called Wouldn't It Be Cool If (WIDCI)? Wouldn't It Be Cool If? And so, anybody can send out an email and say, “Wouldn't it be cool if? Wouldn't it be cool if, you know, the accountants ran the creative team?” And we give it thought.
[00:14:15] Marcus: Yeah, I see you repping hard for accountants here. You keep trying. I appreciate you trying.
[00:14:20] Devin: You started it. I just want to make sure that, you know, finance folks get their truth, too. More than finance. I got to an UNINTERRUPTED hoodie that says “More than a finance guy,” because we believe we are more than.
[00:14:32] Marcus: You know, if you can see it, you can believe it, man.
[00:14:35] Devin: You can. That is absolutely true. That is absolutely true.
[00:14:38] Marcus: So, I hear this, and having worked creative side, at creative agencies, you know, there's always been that refrain, I've never been in an agency that didn't say, you could be the janitor and have an idea. Good ideas can come from anywhere. But it's while it's always been said as a saying as, sort of, a, a mantra, if you like, what you feel like, it's a mantra. It hasn't been exercised very much.
[00:15:03] Devin: Hard.
[00:15:04] Marcus: Very hard, that's what I'm getting to.
[00:15:05] Devin: Because guess what? That job needs to be getting done, too. So, if you're, you know, if you're the janitor and you're out there writing up a treatment for the next show that we're going to produce, who's cleaning?
[00:15:17] Marcus: That’s right. That’s what, that’s what I'm getting to. It's exactly what I'm getting to. In the world of advertising, we go, “But yeah, like, you're not billable. So, you can do that on your off time. But, like, I need you to, you know, sweep the floors.” But it sounds to me that these aren't just platitudes at the SpringHill Company. I mean, look, I know you, so you don't suffer foolishness and nor do you, kind of, dance around the bush at all. But it seems like this is very much a part of, sort of, the ethos and the practice of the company. And if I'm thinking of myself as president, I'm like, “Good night,” like, trying to orchestrate that and operationalize that, it is… like, that seems like a daunting task. To your point, if you're writing scripts, you're not sweeping. If you're on set, then you're not, you know, crunching the numbers or whatever you, account folks, do.
[00:16:05] Devin: We do that. We do that.
[00:16:06] Marcus: So, the question becomes, how do you operationalize this ethos that leads you to such creative power that allows the company to be so successful in the market while also, you know, making sure that the Is are dotted and the Ts are crossed?
[00:16:24] Devin: Yeah, I mean, it requires judgment and discernment by leadership, by the employees, that, you know, everybody's, you know, they're saying that we haven't, in the company, you know, where it originated, it may be Rich Paul, but it's keep the main thing the main thing. And, you know, everybody has a job to do. And, you know, we're all open to the idea of more than, but you still have to be what you are before you can be what you're more than. And if you're practicing more than without being what you're supposed to be, you know, that can create some dynamics. That's not great for the company.
So, you know, as a company, I'm always about, “Look, you know, we have you, kind of, an unwritten contract, you know.” Our unwritten contract is to create an opportunity and experience for you. That's growing. That's fulfilling for you. That's paying you well. That's doing all the things that you need.
But, you know, the other side of that contract is you have to be delivering on what we hired you to do and, you know, do the things that are of the benefit of the company. And that contract has to stay in place. Anytime it gets lopsided is when there's problems, right? That becomes either performance issues or that becomes people not, you know, feeling like they're valued by the company and they leave. You know, I always say, you know, the hardest thing to do when you're in your early part of your career is when do you leave? Like, when do you leave? I think some people, you know, I think leave too soon. They hit a wall or they hit some challenges and they leave too soon. And I think some people stay too long. You know, you have these challenges and, you know, you're not getting the inroad, the company doesn't see your genius, you know. And so, sometimes, you got to, you know, go somewhere else and let that genius flourish. So, that's one of the biggest challenges. But that implied contract, I think, is, is, kind of, what keeps it all together. And, you know, we all know when it's getting lopsided.
[00:18:10] Marcus: Yeah. What you all have been able to accomplish, it's quite amazing in that the content that you create aren't just things that are being viewed, being consumed, but they become the catalyst for social discourse. They become a part of the cultural zeitgeist and the things that we talk about. How we talk, you know, more than an athlete, shut up and dribble, like, these things that have been, sort of, reworked into the cultural practice that people use as a part of their identity, like, this is a massive thing. And when I think about you, the accountant, the accountant, what gave you the audacity that you can lead this? That you could be a part of the leadership team that makes this move? I mean, look, yes, you have an ace in the hole, you've got a LeBron James, you had a Mav Carter, but you are a major part of what's making this go. You're a part of this engine, making this go. Like, when you look at yourself in the mirror, it makes you feel like, “I can do this.”
[00:19:14] Devin: Yeah, I do believe I can do it. I think, you know, when I started, Mav told me stories of just, you know, kind of, how LeBron empowered him. And, you know, I took that to heart. And I think he empowers me in the same way. And so, when I joined the company 7, 8 years ago, I think it was, you know, we were trying to figure things out. You know, we had, you know, some things working and some things not working. I came into the company as the leader, the general manager of UNINTERRUPTED. This was before, you know, we had created the SpringHill Company about four years after that.
And so, my first job was building UNINTERRUPTED. And so, the UNINTERRUPTED you see is, really, just, you know, a lot of blood, sweat, and tears by a great team that I was privileged to lead. And, you know, there was a lot of work and time spent on how to grow this thing. And so, the audacity that you speak of, it's funny. You know, Mav always talks about, kind of, the company is an audacious ask. You know, he's always been audacious. And, you know, we always have, kind of, irrational expectations of success.
You know, he set that tone for us. And so, because he set that tone, I walk into the job every day believing that we're going to do something amazing, something great is going to happen. And, you know, we're founded by a bunch of folks that have athlete mindset. Now, I'm not an athlete. You know, I played a little youth basketball and a little baseball, a little soccer back in the day, but they are real athletes, and they think like athletes. And that's, you know, a mindset that I've had to adopt over time, which is, you got to fall in love with the process, you know. So, when, when something's not working and something's hard, you just keep working at it. And those become ethos of the company because we've seen our chairman do it. I've seen our CEO do it.
And so, it's my job to make sure that gets translated to the person that's, you know, working on growing one of our brands, that you got to be okay. You got to fall in love with the process of growing that. It doesn't happen overnight. It's all the nights that you're putting into it, and no one's watching you. And then somebody is going to see you as an overnight success. And so, that is propagated throughout the entire company. You know, everybody believes that we're going to do something amazing. And guess what? We've done some amazing things.
[00:21:34] Marcus: I think that you really hit the nail on the head with this notion of empowerment, because everything that you've said up to this point have been demonstrations of empowerment. And that is finding people that may be the Jenner, to say arbitrarily, but also have these other skills or the accountant who have a crazy Instagram or a crazy TikTok and saying, “Hey, like, you could do this, too.” Empowerment, sort of, acts as an invitation and a charge in some ways to say, “Let's see what you got. And here's the opportunity to, sort of, touch it, the opportunity to move it a little bit forward, to, really, sort of, put yourself to the test.” And that idea of empowerment coming from the chairman, to the CEO, to you and you instilling that into the culture of the place, I think that that is a massive differentiator that is manifested and made real in the work you do and how it reverberates in, in the market. Do you subscribe to that?
[00:22:36] Devin: I do. I do. I mean, empowerment is at the core of everything that we do. It's definitely woven within our culture. But there have been times where we felt like, you know, the empowerment thing goes, goes too far. You know, we've had people, that if we don't do, to your point, that person that wants to create the show and it's the show is not good, or you're not doing what you're supposed to do, so we can't let you do the other thing. And, you know, if we say no to those things, people feel like they're not being empowered.
And so, we will have, you know, employees say, “Well, you're not empowering us.” And so, it cuts both ways. But I think, all in all, the good outweighs the bad in terms of how we think about it and how it's moved our company along because we just have so, so many people that demonstrate, kind of, their more than, more than experience. You know, we have so many people that we've grown and developed. There's so many people in our company, and they're doing their job for the first time. You know, Mav would say that this is the first time he's run a company of this size.
And so, for me, there was a time when it was within, you know, something I'd run at either Tribune or, or NBC, but now it's, this is the biggest thing that I've run. And so, we have managers all throughout our company that are doing it for the first time. And, you know, the good thing is everybody has that work ethic of, “I'm going to fall in love with the process.” So, we're all working at it and we're all getting better. We're all taking our licks. You know, sometimes we make mistakes. But we continue to grow. We continue to build. There was a Wall Street Journal article about us just yesterday, and, you know, talking about LeBron's insatiable desire to grow and build.
And, you know, we're, we're launching a, a male grooming line on our shop, from our shop brand. And, you know, people are pinging me, like, “Oh, my God, it's so amazing. It's so amazing.” And I was telling folks, you know, we're just building it brick by brick, you know. You'd ask me five years ago, would we be here? Would we be launching a male grooming line? I didn't see that coming, but the work we put into the shop created the platform that allowed us to do that.
[00:24:43] Marcus: And, you know, I think what's fascinating about that and important to note here is that this really, it, kind of, pushes against the traditional means by which we hire. Now, typically, we look at resumes as a receipt of experience. You've done these things before, and now we want you to do those things here. “But we know this, using sport as analogy, that you can play this position really well in this environment and be trash on another team, even though you have the same skill set.” So, like, finding the right people to fit in your triangle offense, that's your thing, you know, to fit into your culture matters, which means then the resume, the CV, as we know it, does not have as much credence because you're being hired to do something that you've never done before, because you may be doing that today right now, but tomorrow, you used to make content, but tomorrow you're selling shampoo, go.
[00:25:39] Devin: Absolutely.
[00:25:40] Marcus: So, how, then, do you look at talent? How do you look at someone and look in their soul and go, “Oh, you're one of us?”
[00:25:50] Devin: Yeah, it’s seeing the unseen. I think the first thing is through our talent identification or how we look at the world through our perspective. We see everyone. Because I think when I worked at some of the larger institutions, won't call their names, but, you know, the people that they hire and you see in these roles and the people that move all look very much the same.
And so, they've come in because they knew someone. Our practice is to, really, we open it up and we look at everyone. And so, I think, just our initial candidate pool is just bigger and broader because we see everyone. And so, I think that matters. And so, that's how you get to a team that's 70% diverse and people of color. And, you know, that just means that the pool is bigger. And we're creating more opportunities for folks that need opportunities.
I can tell you for sure, based on some conversations I've had with my leaders, you know, throughout my career, not all of them thought I could do this job. And so, the fact that Mav, when he hired me, saw that I could, that speaks that he saw me as an [inaudible 00:27:01]. And my resume didn't speak to, “I should definitely be doing this.” It wasn't like, “Oh, my God. Like, look at this guy. This is the guy.” You know, I think he also has an eye for talent. And, you know, I'm very fortunate that I delivered for him, or I am delivering, or we're trying to deliver, in the process of delivering, let's say.
But that thing gets replicated all throughout our company all the time when we're making hires. And so, when you have a diverse leadership team, guess what? You have a diverse team. And so, that's a matter for us and it's made a difference. And then when you talk about, you said talent, how do you get talent, then talent retention. You know, thinking about how people, you know, how many times have I been and sat across from someone and I said, “I see you. I see your work. I see the work you're doing,” I see that mattering to people. And so, you know, these are the things that I have the ability to do that weren't done for me too often.
And, you know, it's an important part of my day every day to make sure that I'm letting people know that they're seeing that they're doing a good job, or having hard conversations like, “I see that you have some issues. Let me help you with those.”
[00:28:11] Marcus: Yeah. I mean, and each one of those declarations are invitations, right? They're empowering, right? And I think that that's a… it's a really powerful thing, I mean. And I just want to underscore that idea of, you know, folks, sort of, seeing you when maybe you didn't even see it in yourself and when people definitely didn't see it in you and gave you opportunities, every time, anytime something major happens in my career, there are five people that I emailed just say, “Thank you.” Because none of this would have been possible if they didn't see something in me that was not reflected in my resume, that other people were just like, “This guy who would,” that they gave me opportunities that I probably wasn't ready for, truly. But they empowered me by seeing me. They empowered me to live up to my potential or what could be my potential. I think that's just unbelievably powerful. And I think that that should be a litmus test for future leaders on what it means to be a good leader, and it should be a litmus test for incoming, you know, entry-level workers to say, “This is what I look for in people who say they're invested in me.”
[00:29:14] Devin: Yeah, I agree with that. And, you know, there's so many times I wished in my career that I had somebody to have that conversation with. So, you know, I, I think, I drive my assistant crazy because I'm always available, because I want to be available to the people that need, you know, either kick in the butt or pat on the back, whatever the necessity is, I'm here for it. But it all comes from a place of honesty and true concern for you to build and you to prosper. But the reality of it is also, you know, because I always talk about both sides, it's the accounting side, there's a debit and credit to every conversation. And, and, you know, also, there are certain times when, you know, you may not be a fit for us right now and having to deliver that hard news, too, sometimes. But doing that with love and saying, “Look, you know, you're still, you got a lot of ground left. You got a lot of opportunities left and a lot of runway. Go grow, go build. You may not be able to do it here, but I see what you are and I see that you have some abilities.”
And so, even in those conversations, I think, you know, we take great pride in making sure that we have a great alumni. And we, you know, from whenever we're growing, you know, we want to make sure that everybody's growing with us.
[00:30:35] Marcus: Yeah. Empowerment as a disruptor. I think that's really, really powerful. You got a captive audience right now of folks who are about to elevate out of school, whether it's undergraduate or MBA program, or master's program. You have people who are, like, early into their career. That's who we're talking to now who's consuming this podcast. What advice would you give them, as they look to level up, to take big steps forward to disrupt the status quo in their industry, disrupt the status quo and what's expected of the trajectory of someone who was a marketer or a strategy person or a finance person or an accountant? What advice would you give them?
[00:31:12] Devin: There are no perfect institutions, just perfect intentions. Companies will sometimes miss your genius, and promotions and acknowledgments and all the things that you're looking for may not happen on your timing. But see the value in the struggle. Every bad moment in my career has been followed or was followed by something bigger and better. And I just think if you focus on continuous improvement, you know, try to get 1% better every day, good things will ultimately happen to you.
[00:31:42] Marcus: My brother, DJ, Devin Johnson, thank you so very much for your candor, for your care, because as you empower the folks at the SpringHill Company, I feel empowered just hearing about the way you lead. And the hope is that, you know, it pricks the hearts of people who are entering to business, people who are already there, to help create a better platform by which people can realize their potential. So, super grateful for you.
[00:32:07] Devin: Thank you for having me. This was fun.
[00:32:10] Marcus: Indeed. Indeed. And for everyone listening, thank you so much for joining us for another episode of Breaking Schemas. I'm Marcus Collins. And see you next time. Go, Blue!
Breaking Schemas is a Michigan Ross Podcast, powered by the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative and produced by University FM. Go, Blue!