The relationships you build on your career journey can play a crucial role in your success. Whether it’s with mentors, peers in your industry, colleagues, clients, or all of the above – networking is key. But what does cultivating and leveraging those relationships look like in action? Larry Brinker, Jr. is the CEO of Brinker – a family-owned construction company in Detroit, Mich. that builds communities through projects like hospitals, corporate headquarters, sports facilities, stadiums, and arenas. Breaking Schemas co-host Marcus Collins chats with Brinker about his decision to start at the bottom of his father’s company and work his way up to CEO, the mentors he had along the way, and how his industry of commercial construction is evolving in the digital age. *Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*
The relationships you build on your career journey can play a crucial role in your success. Whether it’s with mentors, peers in your industry, colleagues, clients, or all of the above – networking is key.
But what does cultivating and leveraging those relationships look like in action?
Larry Brinker, Jr. is the CEO of Brinker – a family-owned construction company in Detroit, Mich. that builds communities through projects like hospitals, corporate headquarters, sports facilities, stadiums, and arenas.
Breaking Schemas co-host Marcus Collins chats with Brinker about his decision to start at the bottom of his father’s company and work his way up to CEO, the mentors he had along the way, and how his industry of commercial construction is evolving in the digital age.
*Breaking Schemas is a production of the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative at Michigan Ross and is produced by University FM.*
Opportunity doesn’t always equate to success
33:04: Opportunity is a window of time that you have to take advantage of, and then when you walk through that window or climb through that window, you have to work incredibly hard to obtain that success. Just because you get the opportunity doesn't automatically equate to success.
The power of exposure and networking
24:01: What I tell every student. I tell anybody entering the workforce that the two most important things in your career are exposure and networking personally. And if you can be exposed, create these visions for yourself or your company that turn into goals that you can reach. The sky is truly the limit, but if you don't know that it's out there, it's hard for you to set those goals, right? It's hard for you to reach that point. So it's all about networking and exposure.
How did Larry incorporate the things he learned in his music business career into his asset management construction career?
24:54: One of my probably greatest gifts that I've been blessed with is the ability to understand people, understand personalities, and connect. A lot of that came from those days of the music and club business because that's what it is. It's all about those connections. It's about understanding the vibration of a person, right? In terms of like, you have to know what fuels a person to be able to also push them to run through a wall for you.
(Transcripts may contain a few typographical errors due to audio quality during the podcast recording.)
[00:00:00] Marcus: Welcome to Breaking Schemas, a podcast that explores the dynamic changes of contemporary business through the lenses of the disruptors who have not only navigated the changes but have also rewritten the rules of the game.
We'll be sitting down with business leaders across a wide spectrum of industries to discuss their victories, their failures, and the biggest lessons they've experienced throughout their career to prepare tomorrow's leaders, that's you, for an ever-changing marketplace.
I'm Marcus Collins, marketing professor here at the Ross School of Business, University of Michigan. I'll be your host along with my co-conspirator, Professor John Branch.
Now, let's get into it.
The hard part about interviewing you is, like, I've known this guy forever. You know what I'm saying? So, I don't know the questions to ask because I'd take the thing for granted. So, let's just jump, right in. I mean, you are the CEO of the Brinker Group. What does it mean to be the CEO of Brinker? Tell us about your work, your line of work.
[00:01:06] Larry: Yeah, actually, so, my line of work is commercial construction. That's our core business. We have five commercial construction companies that build... we build everything from hospitals, arena, stadiums, corporate headquarters, sports facilities, industrial buildings, et cetera. And I'm also the CEO of the Brinker family asset management company, which is our family office as well.
So, what it means to be CEO is really just putting people in the position to succeed, right? So, providing the appropriate resources, strategic vision, and mentorship and guidance as needed to accomplish our goals at the end of the day. And for the family office, it's a bit different there. I mean, obviously, we have a vision in place for the family office. I look at that as more of my fun job. I get to do all of the things that I couldn't necessarily do in the core business.
So, we have investments in everything from a sports team, I actually just got my NBA trophy for the Denver Nuggets, to deep tech companies, where we convert CO2 to vodka, fragrances, sustainable air fuel for the U.S. Air Force, things like that. So, from a CEO perspective, it means a couple of different things based on which business I'm working on that day.
[00:02:24] Marcus: It's no question here that you're extremely accomplished. I think it is empirically factual. You're so accomplished in all the things you've done, but what does it typically mean to get into this line of work? Like, from asset management to commercial real estate, what's the traditional way by which people, sort of, make it there?
[00:02:45] Larry: Yeah. So, that is the beauty of it. There are so many different pathways, right? It could be you, obtaining a degree from a college or university. It could be you, similar to my father and his story, where he didn't finish college and actually went into the field as a carpenter's apprentice, and decided he wanted to create his business after working as a carpenter for 10 years. So, I'm second generation. I'm only here because of him.
I mean, obviously, I've put hard work in as well, but there are so many different pathways forward. I even look at myself. In high school, I love space. I wanted to be an astronaut. I wanted to work for NASA. And growing up in Pontiac, Michigan, which was an urban city, not a lot of exposure. I honestly didn't know one engineer growing up and thought aerospace engineering was my pathway to becoming an astronaut.
Little did I know, it was more about creating engines and rockets and stuff like that. And so, once I figured that out, my sophomore year of college at Michigan, I was like, "Well, I, kind of, know this construction thing. Let me just go ahead and do civil and environmental engineering with the concentration in construction management." So, everyone's pathway is different, but there are so many different opportunities.
[00:04:00] Marcus: So, it seems like, if I'm distilling this correctly, that you can either, sort of, start at the bottom of the industry and work your way up, prove yourself out, like your dad did, and completely blow everyone's mind, or you can go in traditionally through, "I studied this in school and then I find my way in." Now, look, I know you well, I know you well. And I know that, like, there are some pivots along the way that you've made.
[00:04:27] Larry: For sure.
[00:04:28] Marcus: So, so, you, you, you go into aerospace engineering because you want to be an astronaut, realize, like, "Oh, it's not really what I thought it was," so you go into the civil engineering route, which is much more in the trajectory of construction, right?
[00:04:42] Larry: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:43] Marcus: But then what happens?
[00:04:44] Larry: So, that is the beauty of growing up in an entrepreneurial family. I knew that the core business was here. I wanted to make sure I had the passion for the industry before I came to work for the family business. So, prior to that, I actually took the career path of music. I was a owner in a music production company. I also owned a nightclub at the same time.
Did that for about three or four years. And through that time, it really allowed me to understand the hard work that my father had put into building the group of businesses. And I was more grateful for the environment, the ecosystem, the opportunity that I was provided through his hard work that then provided me and fueled me with that passion to want to come back to the family business.
[00:05:32] Marcus: So, tell me about those decisions you made, right? So, running a record company, night club, and you go, "You know what? Actually, this ignited fire for the family business. I'm going to get into it, but I'm going to pursue it in a way that's different than my dad did," right?
What were some of the intentional decisions that you made to, sort of, subvert the normal ways by which the company operated, the industry operated, and perhaps even your competitors in the space would operate?
[00:05:58] Larry: Yeah, absolutely. So, it started with me, first and foremost, when I made the decision that I wanted to come back and work for the company. At that point, I told my father that I wanted to go through the process like everyone else. So, I wanted it to be interviewed. I wanted to be hired on my own merit, not because I was his son. Nepotism was important. Like, in a way, I wanted to make sure I didn't get included in that because I've seen how that works.
[00:06:25] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:06:26] Larry: And so, I went through the process. I interviewed with various people within our company, hired in as an entry-level project engineer making $45,000. Now, keep in mind, as a club owner at 21 years old, I was making, like, 15,000 every Saturday night, right? So, it's a big difference, right? But when I came in, I wanted to make sure that everyone knew that I was capable, I was talented, and I had the desire and passion to be in the company.
And so, it started there. And then from there, I was that employee that I was the first one here, last one to leave. And I made sure that my work was done. It was done correctly every day. And then as I continue to grow in the company, when it was a point in time when my father felt like I was ready for leadership, he did something that is probably one of the best case studies for MBA students ever.
What he did is he went out and he hired a gentleman, who was one of my biggest mentors today, who had recently sold his construction company and was looking to retire in four years. So, he brought him in as president of our group. And the goal was to train me for four years so that when he retired, I will be ready to assume that role and, kind of, be off and running. And so, for the first year, I was a fly on the wall, listening, didn't really understand a lot.
I'm in these meetings, like, "Whoa, this is different," you know. By year two, I'm starting to get to comfort level. By year three, I was in a position where I could make decisions for the company, and he was my backstop. So, it was almost like he was the figurehead, but I was the one making decisions, but he would tell me, "Hey, you should think about A, B, or C." But it came across to the company as if it was him making these comments or-
[00:08:20] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:08:21] Larry: ... decisions. And so, by year four, I was at a point where he was like, "Hey, you make the call. I'm not going to tell you if you're right or wrong. I'm not going to let you get too far out of bounds, but I want you to see what it's like if you don't make the right call so you know how to respond to that as well." So, by year four, I was really comfortable.
And throughout that process, though, there were many nights where I was up until 2:00, 3:00, 4:00 in the morning reading 200-page contracts. That was super tough, but it paid off. So, throughout the whole course of my journey, it was always very intentional. And then as I took over, and he retired, my first year, I saved our company almost $2.5 million in terms of, like, savings of restructuring contracts with our employees and things of that nature.
And then a lot of it, I have to, to give credit to just exposure, right? So, I had the ability to be in rooms that my father hadn't been in. I was exposed to different things. I won EY, Entrepreneur of the Year, in 2018, which I went to their national conference. And it put me in this room, talking about family offices and strategic planning.
And so, one of the first things that I did was really come back and say, "Hey, this is what my vision is for the company. I want to make sure we have a clear vision that employees can recognize and execute." B, I wanted to make sure that we were professionalized in a way that we had the right talent and not just on the right bus, but in the right seats on that bus-
[00:09:59] Marcus: Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:00] Larry: ... and then give people the accountability because I had watched my father for so long where people would look to him for answers. And if it wasn't the right answer, they would say, "Oh, well, Larry told us to do it." In lieu of it being collaborative in a way where, "Hey, let's talk about what our plan is. Does everyone buy into it? All right. Now, let's go execute. And if it doesn't end up being what we thought, we all have accountability. It's not just me." Right?
[00:10:27] Marcus: Yeah. Now, is that a normal thing in the construction industry, i. e. that the CEO would be in these rooms with these big thinkers? Like, I guess, when I think about...
[00:10:39] Larry: I would say not oftentimes, right?
[00:10:42] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:10:43] Larry: And I can say I'm extremely fortunate to have had that opportunity to be in those rooms. It's been a bit serendipitous even how it happens, right? Like, it's times where I'll meet someone and it's a totally random connection. And that person ends up being my biggest cheerleader and putting me in other rooms, right?
And then through that, though, I've made it a practice, just because of how my father started the business to the opportunities I've gotten, to make sure that anytime I could pay that forward, I do so. So, if people reach out to me, I always make time no matter if I know you, if I don't, whoever you are, because going back to my father's story, it was basically a 10-minute meeting that gave him an opportunity to work in construction that now led us to where we are today.
So, it changed the trajectory of our family's journey, right? And if I can give someone five minutes, 10 minutes, an hour of my time, and hopefully do the same thing, that's truly what it's about.
[00:11:42] Marcus: So, I think there's a few things I'm, I'm picking out from here. One, the learning by doing, right? Starting entry-level and working your way up to it. And even I think there's this idea of succession planning in a way that, like, your father could have just took you under his wing and just coached you.
But instead of having a proxy in between you, this guy, who becomes your, your mentor, runs the company as a president, creates a buffer between you and him, but also, sort of, provides you guidance that would have been seen as nepotism, to your point, if it were just your dad, but then not only providing guidance, but giving you the space to lead with the buffer of him as, sort of, the serial divergent in a lot of ways, which I think is really, really cool.
[00:12:27] Larry: Yeah. So, that truly was probably the most valuable piece of it all is my father and I are extremely close, a great relationship, almost like brothers. And oftentimes, it's extremely hard for a G1 to let go of the reins for a G2-
[00:12:46] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:12:47] Larry: ... right? And especially when you're working together day in and day out, it's hard to separate home from work at times. And the best thing that happened with me was he literally gave me the freedom to learn and mess up and him not be on my shoulder, on my back, hovering, but it was more like I was behind this curtain being trained.
So, when the curtain opened, I ran out, and I was ready. And he was like, "Whoa, who is this guy?" Right? And so, so, so, like, it, like, instantly gave him a different level of respect for me professionally as well, which helped us be even more in line with our long-term vision for the company and grow in how we operate it as partners.
And we've been partners now for a while. And it's always a bit weird, right, because your partner is your father. And there's times that we have straight and honest and direct conversation, and it's always respectful, but end of the day, he's still my father-
[00:13:48] Marcus: That's right.
[00:13:48] Larry: ... right? And he also started the business.
[00:13:50] Marcus: Yep.
[00:13:51] Larry: But it's been something that I wouldn't trade in for the world. I mean, to have the ability to work with my father every day for the last 20-plus years now has been something that I will forever remember. It will definitely hold a special place in my heart as well.
[00:14:09] Marcus: Once you took the reins of the company, what were some of those early decisions you made as far as the projects you took on, the things that you did that your father would have never done? Like, tell me about that. Give me in the mind of Larry-
[00:14:25] Larry: This is the fun stuff.
[00:14:25] Marcus: ... the CEO, Larry, who's running this company. Yeah, talk to me about those decisions.
[00:14:30] Larry: Yeah, absolutely. So, one of the first things I did was make sure that we upgraded our technology. Now, one of the benefits I had was one of my first jobs was this, like, $200-million hospital project where we joint ventured with a multi-billion-dollar company. So, I got a chance to see all of their technology processes. And because we were a joint venture, our company owned a portion of that as well.
So, I brought all of that expertise and knowledge back to our company, but the first thing I did when I took over was focus on technology. I gave all of our field staff iPads so that now they're making decisions in the field, they don't have to go back and write down something or e-mail.
They could take photos of a condition. They could send it over to the architect within seconds. And it can be documented and more efficient in terms of how we would run our projects because every minute, every hour that a trade in the field is stuck and they can't finish doing something, that costs a lot of money, I mean, to the tune of tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars.
[00:15:40] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:15:41] Larry: So, that was the first thing that I did was optimize our efficiency in the field. And then from there, I focused on the office side of things of optimizing the technology in our office. So, now, in lieu of having those big blueprints from back in the day, everything we do is basically on a computer.
So, we take off our estimates from software on the computer to how we project manage our ERP for our accounting and financial system. We have the same technology that every billion-dollar company has, right?
[00:16:15] Marcus: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:15] Larry: And so, that was a huge focus. And then thirdly, going back to the strategic planning piece, I was chairman of the board of the Construction Association of Michigan, and we went through a strategic planning session where there were 12 CEOs on this board. So, imagine that room, right, in terms of, of egos and everything else. And so, I watched this guy come in and started off being purely chaotic.
And by the end of this session, we were all aligned and on one, one page. And I said, "Wow, that was pretty amazing how he was able to take these egos and different personalities and get us all to the same point." And so, I'll never forget. I came in, and I said to my father that I wanted to bring in a third-party consultant to come in and help us create a rolling five-year strategic plan so that every year, we would update it, but it was always a five-year outlook.
[00:17:09] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:17:09] Larry: And he looked at me and he says, "Okay. Well, yeah, sounds good. It's your show. If you want to do it, go ahead. I probably wouldn't do it, but hey, do it." And so, I set a lunch up with my father and the consultant. And I'll never forget. The consultant says, "Well, Larry Sr., I know why Larry Jr. wants to use me, but, like, why do you want to use me? Like, why are you here at this lunch?"
And he says, "Well, I'll be honest. If it were me running the company, you wouldn't be here, and I wouldn't be here, but because it's Larry, and he wants to do it, I support it. I understand that the way I've done business is probably going to be different than how he does it.
And also, with that, I understand that he has a better sense on technology. He's been in more rooms than I've been in. So, I'm giving him every opportunity to grow the business." So, I say that to say that, it was a big step for my father to let go of those reins, and-
[00:18:09] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:18:09] Larry: ... first of all, recognize that he probably would do things differently, but give me the autonomy to better the company and grow the company and professionalize it as well.
[00:18:21] Marcus: Where do you think the industry's going? So, if the implementation of technology has been one of the bigger things by which you were able to subvert, not just the industry, but particularly how the companies run before you, what's next? Where's the industry heading? And how are you preparing for it?
[00:18:40] Larry: Yeah. So, I am extremely excited about where the industry is headed from a technology perspective. When you look at the numbers, any state across the country, everyone is suffering through a decrease in workforce, right? And especially when you think about skilled trades. So, in Michigan, in 2008, 2009, during that downturn, we lost, like, almost 90,000 skilled trade workers in those two years.
[00:19:11] Marcus: Wow.
[00:19:12] Larry: They moved to, you know, Florida, Las Vegas, wherever, but by 2020, three in four job vacancies would be due to retirement. All of that came true, right?
[00:19:21] Marcus: That's a double whammy.
[00:19:23] Larry: So, we're here in 2023, and it's all true. And so, some of the technology that's forthcoming that we're seeing is really one that's huge and it's being researched at the University of Michigan, which is cool, is robots, right? So, from the standpoint of robots, being able to install a drywall and metal stud, you know, to painting, to doing things that, A, makes us more efficient, but, B, kind of, fills or covers that gap of the lack of workforce.
So, I'm super excited about the technology piece. Like, we have, capabilities now where we can put you into a 3D environment, a 4D environment for you to test out your building prior to us ever digging one hole to make sure that everything is where it needs to be, and so that once we get into the field, we're not making changes that's slowing down the project or costing more money.
Even things as simple as a facilities manager can go into this 3D environment or 4D environment and look at where a valve is that he or she would have to open or close. And depending on if they're right-handed or left-handed, they can tell if it's in the right spot or if it needs to be moved to be more convenient. And it's things like that, that from a technology perspective is really making us more efficient, but also ultimately making us a better contractor as well.
[00:20:58] Marcus: So, we're, we're talking about adding robots to the workforce, but how are you preparing for this? Like, if this, if this is where things are going, how are you preparing for this as a leader and preparing your company for this?
[00:21:09] Larry: Yeah. So, it's really a part of our culture, right? So, that's a big, big piece of any company is how you create the right culture. So, in our culture, I have incentivized and gave people, once again, the autonomy to think about new ideas.
And, and what I've done is to go as far as to through our family office, that if one of our employees comes up with an idea that has to do with construction tech, right, that we will not only fund that idea if we see it being viable, but it's almost acting as an internal incubator for our company, right? So-
[00:21:47] Marcus: Interesting.
[00:21:48] Larry: ... that's been fun.
[00:21:50] Marcus: And that's not normal though. Like, when I think about construction companies, and maybe I just have an outdated orthodoxy of what a construction company is, that's not how I normally think about construction companies.
[00:22:00] Larry: Yeah. I would say in, what I would say, the larger multi-billion-dollar companies, it can be normal or, or a standard practice. For mid-market companies of our size, I feel that we are definitely ahead of the curve that that's not happening. We even have gone as far as to have certain types of insurance that we use that other mid-market companies can't necessarily... don't have the skill set to operate. So-
[00:22:29] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:22:29] Larry: ... it's in a way that we've been able to glean so many good things from the billion-dollar companies or multi-billion-dollar companies to bring to a mid-market company that, that has allowed us to be in the position we're in. I mean, Marcus, at the end of the, the day, it's all been through exposure.
[00:22:46] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:22:47] Larry: And that's what I tell every student. I, I tell anybody entering the workforce is the two most important things in your career are exposure and networking personally, right? And if you can be exposed and create these visions for yourself or your company that turns into goals that you can reach, the sky is truly the limit, but if you don't know that it's out there, it's hard for you to set those goals, right? It's hard for you to-
[00:23:20] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:23:20] Larry: ... get to that point. So, it's all about networking and exposure.
[00:23:24] Marcus: Now, I have to ask, how have you incorporated the things you learned in your music business career into your asset management construction career?
[00:23:37] Larry: Yeah. So, one of my probably greatest gifts that I've been blessed with is the ability to understand people, understand personalities, and the ability to connect, right? And I think a lot of that came from those days of the music and club business, because that's what it is. It's all about those connections. It's about understanding the vibration of a person, right, in terms-
[00:24:03] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:24:03] Larry: ... of, like, like, you have to know what fuels a person to be able to also push them to run through a wall for you, right?
[00:24:13] Marcus: That's right.
[00:24:14] Larry: And so, with that, it's been a situation where I can think back to the club days that I, kind of, came across every type of person. I came across people that I may have felt unsafe around in a normal day of, of life.
And there has been people that were incredibly talented, people who were incredibly smart, but it allowed me to really be comfortable in any room and know how to read a person and hopefully connect in a way that it's a genuine connection. I'm all about long-term relationships and connections, not about, hey, how can I play into this person to get what I want today and throw them to the curb tomorrow? But that's all I hope.
[00:24:57] Marcus: I mean, your proximity to, to whether it's the audience in the music world or the artists that you work with, the creators has a very clear parallel to your work.
[00:25:08] Larry: Absolutely.
[00:25:09] Marcus: And when I think about the Brinker group that you are providing autonomy for your employees to be creative, to bring ideas and feel like they're in a psychologically safe environment to do that, not only will your ideas be heard, but they'll potentially be funded. Unbelievable.
Much like buying into an artist so that an artist can be the best version of themselves, but also thinking about what might the end consumer want, whether it's your customer and people you're building projects with, or the people who will be in the edifices or the, the buildings in which you're building, thinking about what the best experience for them is going to be. It really, really boils down to understanding people and being able to tap into the humanity of people to get the best out of them.
[00:25:50] Larry: Absolutely. And so, even things that we've done where we've invested money back into the company in terms of, like, we just recently renovated our office a few years back. And the whole goal there was to give people a feeling that they weren't tied to their desk.
[00:26:07] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:26:07] Larry: So, we have various areas where people can work, hang out, and have coffee. We have a whole food pantry where we bring fresh food in every day. We put a golf simulator in our office, and things of that nature, where we did things with the employees in mind first, right? We want them to have fun. We always say in our values, "Go... or come back to community and family," right?
And so, when we hire someone in and we say, "You're coming in as a part of our family," we truly mean that because our last name is on the door. So, so, how we see it is anybody can come and go from this company, but they can go get a new job tomorrow. It's our name. We can't necessarily do that same thing. So, when we bring you in, we're trusting in our family name in you, right? And-
[00:26:58] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:26:59] Larry: ... so, like, from that perspective, it, it does come down to family and treating people truly like I would treat my own, you know, kids and cousins and-
[00:27:09] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:27:09] Larry: ... siblings, right?
[00:27:10] Marcus: The thing that keeps bubbling to the top for me as you talk, and you really framed it well, is this idea of relationships. The relationship with your father, your relationship with the industry, you had to fall in love with it. You had to, sort of, ignite the passion that, that's within you.
The relationship with your mentor, who served as the president for four years, that really shepherd you into the space you're in, the relationship with your workforce, the people who work with you, right? It's not transactional in nature. They are family, right? I like that thing. Your relationships with people who are in your field, right?
You learn from them, being exposed to spaces that you normally wouldn't be in considering the size of your company, that you, you develop relationships with people outside the industry, within the industry, different places in the industry, and all these things become ways by which you've been able to disrupt the business that you're in and the category in which you sit as you think about the future, where this thing is going. Is that a fair estimate to say?
[00:28:06] Larry: Absolutely, absolutely. Even one thing that I always say about construction, too, is that although it's, it's not glamorous, it's not sexy, the coolest part is you often find yourself in rooms with billionaires, right, in a way. Like, I have been in more rooms with billionaires as my clients where I'm serving them in the capacity of construction, but it gives me the opportunity to build genuine relationships with them as well.
[00:28:36] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:28:36] Larry: But you have this level of access through our industry that most, you know, people don't have every day. And it's not just me at my level, but even my employees from the most entry-level to senior employees have been in these same rooms with me, with people that are well-known, that are successful. And when you build those relationships, it opens up that next door for you as well. So, I've been extremely fortunate from that perspective.
[00:29:04] Marcus: Relationships as a disruptor. I like that a lot. Relationship development, relationship investment as a disruptor.
[00:29:11] Larry: That's the next book, Marcus.
[00:29:11] Marcus: I like that, I like that. Relationships as a disruptor. Okay. So, I know, look, you are a busy, busy man. You're running two companies. So, let's put a bow on this. Two last questions for you. The first, what's the normal advice that are given to people who are navigating your industry? What's, like, the advice that you normally give?
Like, in academia, we go, you know, "You need to figure out what you want to study. And you need to, you know, as soon as you finish your PhD program, you need to, like, get into a university, put your head down, publish as much as possible so you can get tenured." Like, that's the advice. But in your world, what's the traditional advice that's normally given?
[00:29:48] Larry: I would say the traditional advice that, to me, is changing is, "Hey, you have to come in and put your time in and you have to be here all day, every day. You have to do X, Y, Z," right? That's just that old, like, old-school way of construction.
[00:30:07] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:30:08] Larry: What the advice that I give today is, look, come in with an open mind, right? You may think you want to do this, but throughout your journey, it may pivot to something else in the industry that gives you greater opportunity but be open to it all. And then, B, build real relationships with people because construction is a people business.
You have to focus on the field workers to get them to buy into what you're asking them to, to do to get the job done. You have to have the relationships with the owners. You have to have relationships with your co-workers to be successful. So, those are probably the two answers that I typically give that are different than the old school, "Hey, you just have to pay your time and-"
[00:30:52] Marcus: Yeah.
[00:30:53] Larry: "... work 40 hours a day," right? So, like, like, it's just different than what it used to be for sure.
[00:31:01] Marcus: And what's interesting is that you have achieved what you have achieved by doing both of them-
[00:31:07] Larry: Yeah.
[00:31:08] Marcus: ... by putting in the hours, doing the work, but also being open-minded and investing in the relationships.
[00:31:13] Larry: Yeah. So, Marcus, I always say that opportunity... like, the old saying that it's preparation plus the opportunity equals success, but how I say it is opportunity is a window of time that you have to take advantage of. And then when you walk through that window or you climb through that window, you have to work incredibly hard to obtain that success. Just because you get the opportunity doesn't automatically equate to success.
[00:31:40] Marcus: Amen, amen. Larry Brinker, the disruptor. Thank you so much, Serves. I really, really appreciate it. It's always great chop it up with you, my guy.
[00:31:48] Larry: This has been fun, man. This has been fun. We go way back. And I love seeing what you're doing. And, man, you're an inspiration to us all. So, it's an honor to be here, Marcus.
[00:32:00] Marcus: Oh, man, the pleasure is all ours. Truly a leader in best. Thanks, my guy.
[00:32:04] Larry: Thank you.
[00:32:06] Marcus: Breaking Schemas is a Michigan Ross podcast powered by the Yaffe Digital Media Initiative, and produced by University FM. Go, Blue.